{"id":11273,"date":"2018-01-31T08:00:22","date_gmt":"2018-01-31T13:00:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.cemeterydance.com\/extras\/?p=11273"},"modified":"2018-02-01T12:31:12","modified_gmt":"2018-02-01T17:31:12","slug":"conversation-jack-ketchum","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.cemeterydance.com\/extras\/conversation-jack-ketchum\/","title":{"rendered":"A Conversation with Jack Ketchum"},"content":{"rendered":"

A note from interviewer Mike Noble<\/a>:<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\"\"
Dallas “Jack Ketchum” Mayr and Mike Noble<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

When I got word from Blu Gilliand that Cemetery Dance was going to release an online preview of my interview with Dallas Mayr (known to horror fans the world over as Jack Ketchum), I was excited that I would finally be able to share something with Dallas. We started this interview at Joanne Trattoria in New York city in 2009 and ended it via email on November 11, 2017.<\/em><\/p>\n

I knew how sick Dallas was and I emailed him often to check and see how he was doing. I stopped getting replies a couple of weeks before he passed. It wasn\u2019t the first time there had been long gap between replies—he kept himself very busy—so I was hopeful his health wasn\u2019t the reason. He had bounced back before.<\/em><\/p>\n

On January 24th, Dallas Mayr died. Although I should have not have been surprised, the news hit me like a ton of bricks.<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019m still wrapping my head around the loss. I had already written an introduction for this. It was primarily about what a legend Dallas was—how he had redefined the horror genre and how he had won the admiration of legions of accomplished and talented writers from Chuck Palahniuk to his long-time friend Stephen King. King has given plenty of blurbs in his day but I doubt he will ever top the one he gave to Dallas: \u201cWho\u2019s the scariest guy in America? Probably Jack Ketchum.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

Now I find myself writing something that is more of a eulogy than an interview introduction, and it\u2019s a sad task. My heart goes out to Dallas\u2019s family and friends, particularly the love of his life, Paula; his agent, Alice (I always loved when I got to start out an email with \u201cDallas & Alice\u201d); and his<\/em> friend and collaborator, Lucky McKee. Lucky answered a few questions about Dallas for me and I was looking forward to Dallas reading the sweet things Lucky said about him.<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve also been thinking of writers like Brian Keene, who Dallas befriended and mentored early on in his career. Looking at the outpouring of love that has emerged since Dallas\u2019s passing, it is astonishing how many people he gave his time to. All you had to do was reach out to him with a story and he would read it and give you the best advice you could possibly ask for.<\/em><\/p>\n

At heart I believe Dallas was a teacher and I think he thought of the aspiring writers and filmmakers who reached out to him as students. I thought of him as a teacher and a mentor for sure. How lucky am I to have been able to bend the ear of a man who was the literary agent of Norman Mailer, Robert Bloch AND Henry Miller? And that was before he revolutionized an entire genre.<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019m so thankful for the time I got to spend with Dallas. Whether I was interviewing him or having a drink with him or exchanging emails, I knew that time in his company was precious. I\u2019ll miss his warmth and his humor and his infectious laughter and his big smiles.<\/em><\/p>\n

I spent the evening Dallas died in a manner I knew he would approve of: drinking wine and going through my book collection. I leafed through the books he signed for me. One of my all-time favorite Jack Ketchum books is a western,\u00a0<\/em>The Crossings. He signed it the day we started this interview:<\/em><\/p>\n

5\/16\/09<\/p>\n

Mike –
\nStay strong\u2026
\nBests
\nDallas<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I\u2019m trying. Rest in peace, Dallas.<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

CEMETERY DANCE: You have a new short story collection out, Gorilla in My Room<\/em> (published by Cemetery Dance<\/a>). Long-time Jack Ketchum fans will be pleased by it—the cannibal family from Off Season<\/em>, Offspring<\/em> and The Woman<\/em> make up a prominent chunk of the book.<\/strong><\/p>\n

JACK KETCHUM: That they do. These are largely uncollected newer pieces, which have appeared in various anthologies since the publication of my last collection, Closing Time and Other Stories<\/em>. There\u2019s also The Transformed Mouse<\/em>, based on a fable from the Panchatantra (an ancient collection of stories from India written in Sanskrit), which has only come out in a pricey collector’s edition—a kind of fun bonus.<\/p>\n

What else is happening with your work that your readers will be excited about? Even better, what are you excited about?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, I’m working on a new novel\/screenplay project with Lucky McKee (director of Ketchum-based films The Woman<\/em> and Red<\/em> and co-author, with Ketchum, of the novels The Woman<\/em> and Secret Life of Souls<\/em>). We’re having a great time. And shooting has begun on Pollyanna McIntosh’s script for Darlin\u2019<\/em>, the sequel to The Woman<\/em>. Pollyanna’s also directing. I’ll be flying down to Louisiana to have an on-set look.<\/p>\n

Did you enjoy the adaptation of “The Box” from the all-female-directed anthology XX<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I did. Had some trepidations at first about changing the parents’ gender but in the end I thought Jovanka’s ideas worked out fine.<\/p>\n

It must have been gratifying to have your story included in XX<\/em>, considering you’ve had to deal with accusations of misogyny in your work. I’m referring specifically to some of the reactions to The Woman<\/em>, like the man who freaked out on Lucky at the Sundance premiere<\/a>.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Anybody who thinks I’m a misogynist hasn’t really read me, if you know what I mean. I write for good readers, not people with agendas. And the guy who freaked over The Woman<\/em> at Sundance did us a big favor. The thing went viral and scored us great free publicity.<\/p>\n

\"\"The Crossings<\/em> would make a great film.<\/strong><\/p>\n

You\u2019re like me. You like westerns.<\/p>\n

Oh, yeah. You know, and I love the way that that visceral horror mixes so well with the western genre—the book really captured the best of both genres.<\/strong><\/p>\n

It was fun to do.<\/p>\n

The original idea on that, when did it come about?<\/strong><\/p>\n

It started out its life as film. I wrote about half of a film script. I based on two things really, the Rancho El \u00c1ngel muders in Mexico in the 1960s and then this incident that happened, I think in the 1950s, when this truck driver is going along some road late at night and he sees two naked women come out of the bushes. They had been held in a camp by these white slavers or white Mexican slavers, whatever they were. And they busted the ranch that this was on. They were Satan worshippers, and they were selling women into prostitution, etc.<\/p>\n

My idea was to take it back in the old West. I thought that would be a lot more fun because then the cowboys, the people who find her, could get involved. In the real case, the cops were the ones who busted in.<\/p>\n

I thought, okay, again, if you take the classic western, the hero riding to save the victim and save the girlfriend, what if you take that and pop it back to right after the Mexican War? So I researched the Mexican War. I figured that was a really good time to do it because that was such a bloodthirsty conflict. I wanted it to be across the Rio Grande, so that seemed the right time to do it.<\/p>\n

Where did the characters come from? Heart, Mother Knuckles\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

It\u2019s a buddy movie. It\u2019s a three-way buddy movie, basically. The reporter is the coming-of-age guy. He\u2019s watching this. And I thought of Ned Buntline. He\u2019s hanging on to Wild Bill Hickok\u2019s coattails basically and writing about him. He did like a hundred books about Wild Bill Hickok, most of them lies. I thought of Buntline doing that, getting on to some character who\u2019s really bigger than life.<\/p>\n

I was able to get on a little bit of soap box about race relations, just a little, in the course of an action story. I try to do that. I try to not preach, but to advance my ideas, my causes in a fictional setting.<\/p>\n

What do you think those causes are?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Animal rights, for one thing. Not even animal rights, that sounds like too PETA, who are idiots. But animal care. And environment. I write a lot about the Maine woods. And people have asked me how come? I live in New York. Well, I love the environment, and I love the Maine woods.<\/p>\n

My Maine woods are basically a combination of Maine and New Hampshire because that\u2019s where I\u2019ve spent a lot of time. Although they\u2019re very different, they\u2019re also very much the same. The \u201cMainiacs\u201d and the people from New Hampshire are probably going to take issue with that, but there is a similar sensibility about the terrain there. I always have loved that. I spent a lot of time there in the \u201870s and early \u201880s.<\/p>\n

A kind of overreaching arc throughout your work is the search and the eventual finding of strength.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah. That\u2019s always interested me. Put into extraordinary circumstances, can you find some inner strength? It\u2019s sort of what I wish for, for my friends and for myself I suppose. But it\u2019s a wish that we can transcend ourselves and be better, and call upon reserves we didn\u2019t think we had. And it\u2019s almost always in the face of some sort of loss.<\/p>\n

\"\"
Jack Ketchum
(Photo Copyright Steve Thornton)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

You\u2019ve said that you\u2019ve had to find strength in your life, do you care to talk about that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Let me see if I can retrieve this. The film I just saw, it was a Spanish film. It\u2019s called Don\u2019t Look Down<\/em>. It\u2019s fairly obscure, but it\u2019s on Netflix. And I came to it because I thought, like Peter Straub\u2019s comment, he came for the wrong reasons and stayed for the right ones. It\u2019s an erotic piece. And it is. It\u2019s quite hot. But it\u2019s also about sex affirming life.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s about a boy whose father has just died, and he\u2019s very troubled by that. He has death fantasies, and he walks in his sleep. And he meets this woman, who is an older woman, and they have a brief affair. And she teaches him all about sex and how sex can be life-affirming. And she leaves. She\u2019s older. She\u2019s got a job, and she goes to Barcelona. He stays.<\/p>\n

And his father comes to visit him one last time. His father has been appearing as a ghost every now and then. And his father says to him something like\u2026 Let\u2019s see if I can get this right: \u201cYou\u2019ll lose people all along the way. Don\u2019t let that stop you loving.\u201d And that struck me as a very important thing to say. It\u2019s kind of what I\u2019ve been trying to write about a lot.<\/p>\n

Donovan once said, \u201cDon\u2019t let the changes get you down, man.\u201d If you live long enough, that man was right. That ghost was right. I\u2019ve lost my father. I\u2019ve lost my mother. I\u2019ve lost countless women and men who were important to me. I lost some friends, early on, to AIDS. Because I was an actor for a long time, I\u2019ve got lots of friends who are gay. I\u2019ve watched that sweep across the fucking nation. Vietnam, I lost people in Vietnam.<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t get to be this age and not have lost a lot of people and experienced a lot of loss of not just people, but also friendships that disappear, betrayals that you didn\u2019t expect. Our courage is all about, I think, all about dealing with that, going on and still remaining humane, loving people.<\/p>\n

Hell, I\u2019ve lost five cats now. I\u2019ve got four. They\u2019ll go too, probably, before me. I don\u2019t care. I actually do care, but that won\u2019t stop me from getting another one. And they\u2019re not replacements. There\u2019s no replacing somebody you love. You love them forever. But there is room for another soul to come into your environment, into your sphere. So, yeah, you mourn the cat you\u2019ve lost, or you mourn the friend you\u2019ve lost, and you make another one. That\u2019s what cool about us.<\/p>\n

Do you remember the first concise set of words that kind of set you off? And do you also remember the first time that you put some words together that just made your jaw drop? I know you\u2019ve had those moments.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve had those moments. I can\u2019t say what the first was. It\u2019s going way too far back for me to answer your first question. I know that I do remember, vividly, reading. My father and I took a trip to California on a plane. In those days, it was a prop. This was a long trip.<\/p>\n

My father, who had been on a plane before, was pointing out the window going, \u201cLook at that. Look at that.\u201d I said, \u201cDad, I\u2019m reading Dracula<\/em>.\u201d I read it all through that afternoon and all that night. And I just\u2026 I could not get out of Dracula<\/em>. And my father gave up on me. My father always gave up on me. He was like, \u201cHe\u2019s a reader. Give up on him.\u201d And he finally stopped pointing out the window.<\/p>\n

But I do remember Dracula<\/em> as being a riveting experience.<\/p>\n

What was the second part of the question? Oh, eureka moments.<\/p>\n

I can\u2019t say exactly what it was. But the first time I was really aware of having written a story that was really a story, and it was more than just\u2026 it was maybe important. I had a girlfriend in college who dumped me for a guy who she was already going with when I met her. And I wrote about loss, the heartbreak of loss.<\/p>\n

I sent it to Robert Bloch who was, by then, and for years before, my mentor. He had read all my poems and all my fragments and all kinds of stuff for years since high school. I think I was probably a sophomore in college when I wrote this. And he wrote me back a letter saying, \u201cI think that there are some things that you do better now than I\u2019ve ever done.\u201d That was a eureka moment.<\/p>\n

And exactly what he was referring to, I don\u2019t know. But I think I broke his heart a little. I think that\u2019s what it was, because Bob was never into\u2026 he was not a sentimental man and he didn\u2019t write sentimental. He was a sweet guy, but he didn\u2019t write that way. I think I maybe brought a tear to his eye. I think that\u2019s maybe what he\u2019s referring to. So getting that letter was certainly one of them.<\/p>\n

\"\"Every now and then you\u2019ll get something that you know is exactly right. The first line to The Girl Next Door<\/em>, \u201cDo you think you know about pain?\u201d I went, \u201cOh! I nailed that sucker.\u201d<\/p>\n

It\u2019s really funny. Before this interview, I asked Brian Keene, \u201cSo, what are two questions you should never ask at an author interview?\u201d He said, \u201cFirst off, don\u2019t ask where you get your ideas from. The second one, don\u2019t say, \u2018Do you know Stephen King?\u2019\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

You\u2019ve got to mention Stephen King if you\u2019re talking about me because Stephen has been an incredible cheerleader for what I do, and that\u2019s not true of everybody. I\u2019m never hesitant to talk about Steve.<\/p>\n

Do you enjoy writing a novel more or a short story?<\/strong><\/p>\n

They\u2019re different enjoyments. A novel is scarier because once you start it, you\u2019re going to finish it. I\u2019ve said this before: A novel is like a marriage. A short story is like a one-night stand. They\u2019re both good. They\u2019re excellent.
\nWith the novel, you sort of have to know or feel going in where it\u2019s going to come out and where it\u2019s going to finally resolve itself in some big way or strong way.<\/p>\n

With a short story, you pretty much know going in how it\u2019s going to come out in two days, three days. It\u2019s a great pleasure to get that thing off so fast and know that you\u2019ve got it as a piece.<\/p>\n

The pleasure of a novel is the exploratory sense, when you can craft time every day to sit down and go, \u201cOkay. Here\u2019s what I wrote yesterday. Here\u2019s where it\u2019s going today. Here\u2019s where it may go tomorrow.\u201d That\u2019s a different kind of pleasure altogether.<\/p>\n

And do you map it out?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Not too carefully. I scrapbook. I put notes to myself up on the bulletin board when I\u2019m doing a long piece.<\/p>\n

What is your current thing? What are you reading right now?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Right now? Larry McMurtry\u2019s book on Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley. I forget what it\u2019s called. I\u2019ve been reading a lot of nonfiction lately. I read all over the board, and I tell people who are coming up as writers that they should be doing that. McMurtry is a novelist. This is a nonfiction book by a novelist.<\/p>\n

Just before this, I read The Circus Fire<\/em> by Stewart O\u2019Nan. O\u2019Nan is a fabulous novelist. But one day, he\u2019s looking for some information on the circus fire in Hartford, Connecticut, in I think it was 1943 or something like that. He realized there was no book written about it because he couldn\u2019t find the information he wanted. So he wrote his own book about it. It\u2019s a brilliant, moving, nonfiction book by a novelist, which feels like a novel.<\/p>\n

Too many kids coming up are reading in their genre only, and they\u2019re reading only the stuff that they think they want to write. Ain\u2019t supposed to do that. You\u2019re supposed to read everything. Read the damn newspaper. Take your ideas from everywhere. Read Maureen Dowd\u2019s column in the Times<\/em>. She\u2019s a funny writer, and she\u2019s smart. Don\u2019t just read Anne Rice and write the next vampire novel.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s how we start reading anyway, isn\u2019t it? I\u2019m saying how I started reading. We had an attic, and my mom was a member of the Book-of-the-Month Club. So I\u2019d go up and look in the attic. It was all stuff she had read. \u201cOkay. That\u2019s a nice cover.\u201d I\u2019d open it up and read a couple of paragraphs. I still have this test. The first couple of paragraphs I\u2019ll read it. If it sucks, put it away.<\/p>\n

That was my mom\u2019s boxes of books. I read Somerset Maugham that way the first time. I read Tennessee Williams the first time. Book-of-the-Month Club. It was just like, \u201cLook at the cover. If the cover looks good, okay. Open it up. Read the paragraph. It sounds excellent. I think I\u2019ll read that.\u201d<\/p>\n

\"\"
Jack Ketchum
(Photo Copyright Steve Thornton)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

The last couple of years have been very productive. You’ve published a number of short stories, the Gorilla in My Room<\/em> collection, The Secret Life of Souls<\/em>, and a 35th anniversary edition of Off Season<\/em> with Dark Regions Press. I know you’ve had a lot to contend with personally. How have you managed to keep that pace up?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Having a bad day? Try getting creative. It works like a charm. I have a t-shirt a friend gave me which says EVIL KEEPS ME YOUNG. I wear that shirt a lot.<\/p>\n

Thank you for taking the time to do this. It\u2019s been an absolute pleasure.<\/strong><\/p>\n

You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n

(The full version of this interview will appear in\u00a0Cemetery Dance<\/em> #77)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Mike Noble is a freelance producer\/editor\/writer in the NYC area.\u00a0 He has worked with Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, SYFY, PBS and many other networks and production entities.\u00a0 He lives with his wife and kids and their dog, Queen Buzzy.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A note from interviewer Mike Noble: When I got word from Blu Gilliand that Cemetery Dance was going to release an online preview of my interview with Dallas Mayr (known to horror fans the world over as Jack Ketchum), I was excited that I would finally be able to share something with Dallas. We started … Continue Reading! “A Conversation with Jack Ketchum”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[7],"tags":[307,1382,1383],"class_list":["post-11273","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interviews","tag-interviews","tag-jack-ketchum","tag-mike-noble"],"yoast_head":"\nA Conversation with 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